DAPHNE JONES | The Smart Money Chick

Remember Gen X? How did this generation fall between the cracks of the boomers and the millennials and how can women take control of their money and become entrepreneurial? Joining me to chat is Bitcoiner, financial educator and podcaster Daphne Jones.

We spoke about diviedend investing, REITs, and life insurance for protecting your family and helping to plan your retirement.

Financial independence is a hot topic these days, and there are many different paths to take to get there. Daphne Jones, Bitcoiner, Financial Educator, and podcaster is helping GenX women design their version of Financial independence. She believes that through investing and entrepreneurship, GenX women can grow their wealth. Her podcasts are the perfect way to share her message and inspire others to take control of their finances. Bitcoin is often seen as a risky investment, but Daphne has faith in its long-term potential. She sees it as a way for GenX women to take charge of their
retirement planning and create a nest egg that will last them a lifetime. And with life insurance as another key component of their financial independence plan, she’s helping her listeners build a solid foundation for their future.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPTChloe (1s):

Stocks for beginners. Phil Muscatello and Fin Pods are authorized reps of Money Sherpa. The information in this podcast is general in nature and doesn't take into account your personal situation.

Daphne (13s):

And over time, if you dollar cost average and then you dividend and reinvest, it's not quick money, but it's money. It's real money is there, it's putting the money to work. It's those dollars that you have in Excessed and they make other dollars cuz your dollars have to do that cuz you can't just, not only can you not save your way to wealth, you can't even save your way to safety.

Phil (34s):

Hi and welcome back to Stocks for Beginners. I'm Phil Muscatello. Remember Gen X. How did this generation fall between the cracks of the boomers and the millennials and how can women take control of their money and become entrepreneurial? Joining me to chat is Bitcoiner, financial educator and podcaster Daphne Jones. Hello Daphne.

Daphne (54s):

Hey Phil. How's it going?

Phil (56s):

Good, good. And thank you very much for the pep talk before we started recording.

Daphne (1m 1s):

Okay, You're welcome.

Phil (1m 2s):

Daphne Jones, the smart money chick, is helping Gen X women design their version of financial independence. She believes that through investing in entrepreneurship, gen X women can grow their wealth. So tell us about your story and how you became interested in money and wealth.

Daphne (1m 18s):

I guess that was your average was raised basically to go to work, you know, keep your nose clean, finish college, get a good job. Right. So I followed that advice. I took a little detour, I went in the military and things were going pretty well. It was working out like mom and dad said it would got married and we were two pretty decent income earners or so we thought solidly middle class, but then you, you find out what middle class really means. What we were, were well paid workers. I developed an illness and I couldn't work anymore. So that was a big shock to the system. Right. And then we rolled into oh eight and the other half of the team, my husband lost his position and man, you, you wanna see a little panic watch two wage earners when there's no wages anymore.

Daphne (2m 7s):

So you really get a chance to see when that happens. You, you get to see who's swimming naked and you get to look at your mistakes because you know, a paycheck biweekly, monthly, doesn't matter. It's a mulligan. It's a, it's a sav on any financial mistakes you've made cuz you get a fresh infusion of cash.

Phil (2m 25s):

So you are proudly a Gen Xer. Why do you describe yourself as a Gen Xer and why have you become invisible?

Daphne (2m 32s):

Well, one thing is our size is the, the size of the cohort.

Phil (2m 36s):

Yeah. It's a very small, it's a very small cohort isn't it? Yeah.

Daphne (2m 39s):

Yes. We come right behind that massive cohort of boomers that just changed the world because of their sheer size. And boomer wasn't just a US phenomenon, it was wor it was a worldwide phenomenon. I think the only folks that, no, nobody skipped it. Nobody skipped it. Even the countries that had, that took a, that took it on the chin in World War ii, every, the boomer cohort is worldwide and it was massive. They changed everything, particularly earning a wage because it was so many of them. They held a wage growth down simply because of their, their size here in the states. We were predominantly latchkey kids. Education changed a bit and we were small and we caught the brunt of economic change.

Daphne (3m 23s):

You know, moms going to work, we hit several major recessions. You also had just worldwide changes economically with industrial base leaving the US cuz that's what built the middle class here in the US was unionized labor where those jobs went overseas during our time period. We were adults when the internet came in. So we, we took a lot of changes and yeah.

Phil (3m 45s):

And I think it's also a matter of the, like you were saying the, the economic shocks during the seventies, you know, the oil shocks and inflation and stagnation and urban decay. And as you referred to that all happened for the Gen X cohort as they were growing up, didn't it?

Daphne (4m 1s):

Right, right. And then we ran smack into the eighties when we were entering young adulthood. A major wrong in the economic ladder here in the States was leaving, which was manufacturing. We went from a manufacturing economy to a service one. And that caught a lot of us basically off guard because at that point you really had to go to college. There was a time period where you really needed to go to college. We, we kind of got caught in the switches there because here in the states the dollar became less. It's never that things went up in value. It's that the dollar just didn't purchase as much. The death nail was when Nixon finally took it off the gold standard in 72.

Phil (4m 43s):

So what are the particular issues that women have with money that may be a bit different from the male cohort?

Daphne (4m 50s):

One is the, the earning factor. Of course it is not legal in most western nations to pay women less for the same job. But women choose different jobs. Then you add in the big determiner of women's earning capacity children and it's women that primarily care for the children if there turns out to be any issues with aging parents. So your work history is interfered with your ability to move up the corporate ladder in relation, particularly marriages. It's still still gender-based then you're part of a team and there has to be a discussion about the money, how we're gonna invest it, things of that nature. Are you really focused on it?

Daphne (5m 31s):

And in many cases women aren't.

Phil (5m 33s):

And that's where the problems can start, isn't it? And is that many women don't take an interest in these financial issues until it's possibly too late.

Daphne (5m 42s):

Well, something has occurred where they had to take an interest. Again, you don't wanna make a blanket statement from what I saw when I was actually selling insurance, cause I'm a recovering life insurance agent. Interest wasn't taken until something happened, particularly in married couples when the husband became ill or actually died. There are still marriages out there where they just don't know where the money is. Or you have some cases where it was all in one fund and they don't know exactly what's going on with it. Or they were in two separate, they did have two separate accounts and they found out maybe his wasn't going as well as they thought. So it's, it's communication and actually focusing on the money.

Phil (6m 23s):

So what are some of the first steps? I mean you're a, a communicator and an educator. What are some of the first steps that you suggest? Women do take practical steps.

Daphne (6m 31s):

The first thing is to actually know where the money's going. Take time out because you're not gonna do what's too difficult. Dave Ramsey mentioned something and it works pretty well. It's actually at the beginning of the month, spend all the money on paper and make sure that what you're writing down is actual, is factual and it's a living thing. You might say, oh well no, I'm not going to eat out, I'm not gonna do this. Remember that it's a, that the budget should be a living thing and something that you're actually going to keep up with. And maybe not even use the word budget, but to actually get a grip on where the money's going. Because there, there's software that can do this for you. Many banks offer it for free. You can go download some things like Mint and other places and actually see where you're spending.

Daphne (7m 15s):

And then to start making decision about how you want to put your money to work because this is something you have to decide of, of how you're gonna go about that. And then start educating yourself. You can start off with some basic books, rich Dad, poor Dad, the Millionaire Next Door. You can keep it simple, but you have to have a rudimentary education. I'm not saying you have to be like the day trader that you're sitting up here with multiple screens and you're watching your money X hours a day. That's not what I'm saying. But you do have to make the decision that the excess dollars you earn. And that's a, that's a big point right there because you can't save if you don't make enough money. Cuz that's right behind keeping focus on your money.

Daphne (7m 56s):

You have to get your income up. And the majority of people in the west are workers. They trade time for dollars, whether it's standard employment or if it's contract in some way, they trade time for dollars. So you get these dollars and that's what you're gonna have to build your wealth on. You have to pay attention to what you're doing with them.

Phil (8m 18s):

Look, let's get onto Bitcoin because you describe yourself as a Bitcoiner, why, why do you describe yourself as such?

Daphne (8m 24s):

Because I, I purchase Bitcoin, I'm what they call a a HODLR. I, I buy and hold, I don't trade or stake and I'm exclusive into Bitcoin. Yep. So often you'll hear people say crypto and say Bitcoin, I'm not into crypto. The various coins that are invented, I'm a Bitcoiner. Bitcoin is truly decentralized, which means that no one is, is in control of Bitcoin. The basic software Bitcoin has not changed since Satoshi released it over a decade or so ago. And as Bitcoin is the originator of the blockchain. So we can see every transaction from the first transaction.

Daphne (9m 6s):

So it's very transparent, the growth of Bitcoin, it's now you have the ability to start to spend it. That's improving. And my next favorite thing, right behind decentralization, no government controls it, decentralization, there's only gonna be 21 million Bitcoin. The individuals who may have some control of the code, first of all, you'd have to get literally millions of people to agree to inflate the number of Bitcoin. And if you did that you would devalue the Bitcoin that you do have. So no one would wanna do that. So that, that's the beauty of Bitcoin.

Phil (9m 46s):

Then in terms of more traditional forms of investing, what sort of investing do you follow?

Daphne (9m 52s):

Well what the, the market is great. I am pretty conservative. I do dividend producing stocks and cash flowing real estate is another one. Texas is a great place to do that because we have low regulation, no rent control and we got a lot of land in Texas. Whenever we need more space, we just move the cows over and build, I, I call it my money mix. It's a well paying career begin at home, which is funding your retirement account and then move out from there. Get you some cash flowing real estate in there. Whether you are actually physically owning the property yourself or maybe you're into REITs and things of that nature to diversify the portfolio.

Phil (10m 36s):

So listeners may have never heard of what a REIT is. Tell us about what a REIT is.

Daphne (10m 41s):

It's a real estate investment trust. And the great thing about them is, is that they're required to pay dividends as a matter of fact, to maintain their tax status, they have to give a large percentage of the money that comes in, has to come back to the stockholders in the form of dividends. And also there are some tax tax incentives. Oh by the way, I'm not a tax professional. And you have the ability to bring some tax incentives for owning real estate in in because you're a part of the REIT. So, and one thing, as I said, the big thing is just the dividends that they pay cuz they have to by law to maintain a REIT, they have to put a large portion of the money they bring in a certain portion of it has to go back out in dividends.

Phil (11m 27s):

And what kind of real estate do they invest in?

Daphne (11m 30s):

Well, REITs, all types of real estate, you can find REITs that specialize in, they can get as niche as nursing homes on the east coast. They can be regional, they can be in residential housing across the country or again, they can be residential housing in the state of New York. So there are, there are literally thousands of REITs out there and there are web sites devoted to REITs. But you can go in and take a look. So as I said, you can have REITs that specialize in healthcare, specialize in construction. So all this real estate that is real estate, multifamily, those sort of things.

Phil (12m 6s):

And can you purchase REITs on the stock market?

Daphne (12m 9s):

Yes, they're traded. So that that, so you have the protections that are built in with the SEC, so you get perspectives and things of that nature. So there's much transparency as, as legally required

Phil (12m 22s):

Real estate investment trusts. They're REITs, right? REITs? Yeah. No, it's always good to learn something new on every episode I find.

Daphne (12m 29s):

Oh yeah.You know, REITs are pretty cool.

Phil (12m 30s):

I think these days getting started in investing has become a lot easier because the barriers to entry are now have been lowered. You can actually start investing with $5 now, can't you?

Daphne (12m 41s):

Right, right. And more, more places are doing that. The major brokerage houses are now getting into fractional shares like Charles Schwab is one.

Phil (12m 51s):

And how does that work? And would you suggest Gen Xs and women sort of start using this as a way of learning?

Daphne (12m 57s):

Sure. Because once you buy something, you watch it, you start reading about it, you put a little ticker on your computer, Yahoo Finances easy one to set up and you buy something, you know. Okay, so here in Texas it's Exxon. I, I remember I, I got into Exxon doing the, the pandemic because it got really cheap and they always pay dividends. They're an energy company, not just an oil company. They do solar panels too. So by you can dollar cost average through a brokerage, Schwab as an example. And you can set up like dividend reinvestment where the dividends go right back in. They, they're called drips. And then cuz when you're own the stock, you start receiving a prospectus.

Daphne (13m 40s):

And again, when you, when you buy in, you start learning about what you're buying into and you, you get an idea, okay, hey this is cool, I like this sector. But you have to set aside time and have the interest to, to focus on the money. What, what does it mean,

Phil (13m 55s):

What is it about dividends that you like so much?

Daphne (13m 58s):

They're regular, they come in, they're money. And over time if you dollar cost average and then you dividend and reinvest, it's not quick money but it's money. It's real money, it's there. And when something does happen and something will happen where you need money, it's there. It's putting the money to work, it's those dollars that you have in excess and they make other dollars cuz you, your dollars have to do that cuz you can't just, not only can you not save your way to wealth, you can't even save your way to safety. And by the things I've read and what the governments, the world governments are talking about doing, the governments of various countries, this inflation thing, they may slow it down.

Daphne (14m 43s):

But getting back to those healthy on days of like, you know, that 2%. I don't think so, Phil. Yeah, I don't think so. Not for a long time.

Phil (14m 51s):

And this is where you need compounding and this is what I've been seeing and I think a lot of people approach the stock market thinking, I wanna make really quick gains really quickly and become rich and buy that Lamborghini. Whereas what you're suggesting with dollar cost averaging and reinvesting dividends, it will compound but it takes a long time.

Daphne (15m 12s):

Right? You have to have a long view and that leads us back around to having a well-paid career. So where you're actually able to invest to set money aside to invest. Because I know here in in Texas we've just seen rents have just got, are crazy now. And just particularly in just a short period of the pandemic, you know, we're, we're talking about 40% increases. You have to make a certain income where you are able to, to invest and save and then you have to put that money to work.

Phil (15m 46s):

What I'm amazed is that you're talking about how rents have exploded in, in Texas, it's the same here in Sydney. And these economic forces that we all think are pretty local, they're affecting everyone. You know, I've heard the same things happening in England for example as well, that rents are exploding and it just seems to be the common reaction to the pandemic has meant that governments have just thrown money at it. They've printed money, central banks have printed money, we've now got inflation. And the inflation, the inflation seems to be flowing through the economy in the same way everywhere.

Daphne (16m 27s):

Yes. That's because they all decided to deal with the pandemic in the same way. That is the lockdown. I'm a fiscal conservative so I certainly don't like when governments just send checks out. But you made everybody stay in the house, so you have to send me a check because you won't let me work. Well you pumped so much money, it was crazy. You were, they were getting double unemployment checks. You were getting an unemployment check from the state, then the federal government was sending you an extra 600 bucks. Cuz you actually had people making more money during the pandemic than when they, when, when they were going to work then you were handing out money to who just whoever could fill out a paperwork.

Daphne (17m 7s):

If you could fog a mirror, the US government was sending you money. They, if you were a business owner, if you were, you drove a Uber, everybody got money. Well you have to do that, money has to do something. And so businesses were getting the money, the banks were getting the money, then you make the reserve requirement down to zero so you could, so you were forcing the banks to put as much money out as possible. And that's what drove up the cost of real assets. Because remember during the pandemic, the stock market was having a ball, real assets went up in cost. Re so you, so stock is one real asset and real estate's another one.

Daphne (17m 48s):

And so those costs went up. Money was cheap. Remember when the, because you remember you had a point where even watches was just crazy. The the higher end watches, the Felipe Petty and so forth and you couldn't find a Rolex, they won't back order too much money chasing too few goods and that, that pushed rent up

Phil (18m 7s):

Used cars as well. You know, the, the price of used cars went through there through the roof as well.

Daphne (18m 12s):

Right. Everything. And so, and now with the rents here, it's insane. The, so it's, so it's everywhere.

Phil (18m 19s):

So, and now we're dealing with inflation now and right. Everyone's looking back and saying, well maybe Milton Friedman was right. Right.

Daphne (18m 27s):

And now with the what has happened with the banks, they want to back off the, the central banks from raising the interest rates. So, okay fella is it, do you wanna deal with inflation or we trying to protect the banks because they've got, they've got stuff on their books that was once an asset. That's not liability with the, again, the rush to put the money into something. They bought all these treasuries. So I'm just sitting back, you know, watching and the best I can tell folks is stay hydrated. Exercise. Yep. Get your debt down cuz it's, it's crazy. I I don't know what's coming next. Yeah, I'm just watching.

Phil (19m 8s):

Yeah, that's right. I've, I've noticed when, when I've been researching you, when I've been doing my deep dives into the Daphne Jones world. Oh dear. That life insurance, you talk a lot about life insurance and I know you're recovering life insurance agent, but you still counsel people to consider life insurance. Why is that?

Daphne (19m 27s):

Oh yeah, everybody needs life insurance because bad things happen. What has happened is life insurance has become like this real sexy vehicle cuz it, it's pretty useful in, in building wealth, right? So there's things like the infinite banking where you can be your own banker, the no tax retirement and things of this nature. But when I talk life insurance and I, and I can do that, that other stuff is there. But when I talk life insurance now, particularly talk, when I talk to people who work, working people and the ma again, the majority of people are working people. In other words, they trade time for dollars. And if something happened to that position that they trade time for dollars to it would be a problem. And that includes the folks that make the, the average of, I think it's 47 k to folks who make $470,000 to the folks that make 4.7 million.

Daphne (20m 19s):

They're still trading time for dollars and life insurance protects that. This gives people options, people you love and care about. It gives them options when all of a sudden you're not there. And that's important to have, that protects the wealth that you did develop that that's not wiped out simply because there was a traffic accident or, or your heart gave out. You don't want the people that you care about to have, have to consume the hard work that you put in because you're not there anymore with the daily, with the mulligan, with the paycheck. And that's important to understand about life insurance and to have it structured properly cuz it protects your wealth.

Daphne (21m 2s):

It can add to it as you make more money and you can do certain things with it. But again, that's at a certain income level. And I think those programs gonna get on my, my my soapbox. Those programs are really aimed at individuals of a certain income level and they're kind of being sold to folks who aren't at that income level. And it's like, nah, that's really not for you buddy at your income level. You don't have 1500, 2000 a month to put into a policy to make it do that sort of thing that you wanted to do. But you do have 30 bucks a month to make sure your mortgage is paid off or that the kids, the kids 5 29 plans are funded if you're no longer here.

Phil (21m 46s):

In that answer you mentioned Infinite Banking. What is Infinite Banking?

Daphne (21m 51s):

Infinite Banking is within a whole life insurance policy. The insurance company guarantees you a level of interest when you pay to a life insurance policy. The premium, there's a portion of the premium that goes just to administrative of the policy that that's real. That's only a few dollars a month. Then the next level is actually what it costs to ensure the individual to pay this death benefit. Hence why 40 year old men who smoke pay more than 25 year old women who don't smoke. Right. Okay. So any amount that's paid over those two things, the administrative cost and the actual cost of the insurance goes into a fund and earns interest.

Daphne (22m 38s):

You have the ability to, what they call stuff the policy where you put in the maximum amount yearly to grow the policy. The federal government controls the amount of money you can put into an, in, into an insurance policy based on the size of the death benefit and your income level. So you don't run into tax problems. Cuz remember all money that comes out of an insurance policy is tax free. That's how they shape it as a retirement vehicle. So you, you can use the money so as the money grows within this thing, you can borrow that money cuz it's your money and you've already paid taxes on it. It's grown with this interest and you constantly putting money into it. It's compounding as you mentioned.

Daphne (23m 21s):

So when you need money to do various things, like for instance it can be used to help grow your business and you borrow the money from yourself, the idea is to pay the money back. You don't have to cuz it's your money, right? But the idea is to pay the money back and to even charge your self-interest. If you borrowed 20,000 out of the policy, put back 25 so the money keeps growing cuz you can use it, you can actually take money out. That's infinite banking and you can borrow against life insurance policy. Good example is Walt Disney, it was Disneyland ran into some cash flow issues and it was a new idea and the banks weren't too crazy about loaning the money.

Daphne (24m 2s):

He used his life insurance policy to back bridge loans to finish Disneyland. And he did it a couple of times. He'd done it earlier in the company to pay his animators and so forth. He'd run into some cash flow problems. So that sort of thing. So the infinite banking is based in that and that instead of you going to bankers outside when you wanna buy equipment or whatever investment it is, you wanna make you use the money from your life insurance policy. And so that's great and it's, but it's often presented to people who don't have that type of income.

Phil (24m 35s):

Because that, I was going to ask you about that because is that part of what you are warning is that you do have to be at a certain level of income for it to become more effective for you?

Daphne (24m 44s):

Exactly.

Phil (24m 45s):

Yeah, exactly. People should watch out for sharks coming and trying to sell it to them.

Daphne (24m 50s):

Right? And the other, and it's also used as life insurance can be used as a retirement vehicle where you can make these same loans from your policy when you reach retirement age. Wh whether you choose 65, 70, again, it's your money and it's not, these are not like governmental retirement plans that have age rules and things of this nature on there. This is money that you put away, but those plans are, they involve mutual funds and other things to generate the level of interest that it takes for you to take this money out for those prolonged periods. Cuz remember us Gen Xers, we're gonna see 80 years old, God willing in good shape.

Daphne (25m 33s):

So we're gonna be retired a long time. So again, the amount of money you have to put in over a long time period, not your average worker can't do that. They don't make the income to do that. You, you are a cloud engineer, okay, you got a shot at it because of the amount of income you're bringing in. But the average, I think the average male in the US is at 47,000. So if he's a father of of two, what I wanna talk to him about, he may have heard about infinite banking and that's what got him to hit my link and for us to talk, I'm gonna listen, get the information, but I'm really more concerned with getting him a policy enforce that's going to be, that's gonna have money for the folks that are gonna take care of his kids if he doesn't make it home that evening.

Daphne (26m 21s):

That's what's really important. And that getting that policy at a level, the premium level where it's not gonna be strenuous for him, it's gonna be something he's gonna take care of to understand this is what this policy is for and also be within his budget.

Phil (26m 37s):

Okay. Well tell us about your podcasts and the other work that you undertake. Daphne,

Daphne (26m 43s):

My podcast, I've got, I've got a strictly audio podcast, well there's a video component, but it was primarily audio grown women growing well. We've got about 75 episodes up, had a great time doing it. My partner Roberta Ravel and I, she's a sales coach and we were interviewing, again, women entrepreneurs, subject matter experts coming in all about starting a business a little bit later and, and how to do so effectively, sales and marketing and things like that. And the big love of my life right now is my YouTube channel, smart Money Chick tv, getting guests to come on and being able to give information about, again, life insurance, finance tech.

Daphne (27m 28s):

So we're working on looking at a webinar in a bit to talk about life insurance and to get some digital products out. So that's primarily what I'm doing now. Oh, and we talk about Bitcoin.

Phil (27m 40s):

And Bitcoin.

Daphne (27m 42s):

Oh Yeah, yeah. It's kind of hanging around out there. I had to figure out a way to bring it in. So it had its own channel and podcast for a bit, but I brought it back in house on the smart money chick, so.

Phil (27m 55s):

Okay, Daphne, that's great. Well, look, I'll put links to all of this in the blog post, which we can share on our socials and so people can find more about, about yourself and the work that you're doing. And I, I'm just amazed that you can even say Chick anymore these days. Yeah, yeah. I love saying it. The Smart Money chick. Oh

Daphne (28m 16s):

Yeah. Oh yeah. You can't. No, no, it is, it's a chick because I remember it was cool to be a chick and I'm holding onto it.

Phil (28m 25s):

So Fantastic. Daphne, thank you very much for joining me on the podcast today.

Daphne (28m 29s):

Hey, and thank you for having me.

Chloe (28m 31s):

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Stocks for Beginners is for information and educational purposes only. It isn’t financial advice, and you shouldn’t buy or sell any investments based on what you’ve heard here. Any opinion or commentary is the view of the speaker only not Stocks for Beginners. This podcast doesn’t replace professional advice regarding your personal financial needs, circumstances or current situation.